We Play Full Out with Bart and Sunny

The Most Powerful (Legal) Performance Enhancer You’re Probably Ignoring

• Bart and Sunny Miller • Season 1 • Episode 62

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💤 Think sleep is optional? Think again. 

Dr. Matt Walker calls it the most powerful legal performance enhancer, and science backs him up. In this episode, we break down how better sleep boosts memory, stamina, decision-making, and even testosterone—while deprivation secretly sabotages success. Plus, the shocking story of how lack of sleep led to a billion-dollar disaster. 

You train hard. You work hard. But if you’re not recovering just as hard, you’re leaving massive potential on the table.

Want to play full out? Sleep full out. It’s the single most powerful upgrade you can make for your brain, body, and success.

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Bart:

Welcome to. We Play Full Out with Bart and Sunny Miller. Take it away, Sunny.

Sunny:

Bart, what if I told you that I am in possession of a scientifically proven performance enhancing drug that boosts your brain function, supercharges your muscle recovery, enhances skill performance by 20 to 30%, increases testosterone and growth hormone, strengthens your immune system and improves your memory and decision making. What do you want that?

Bart:

I'd say we're going to be rich, baby, we're going to be rich.

Sunny:

How much would you pay for that?

Bart:

Oh, I'm telling you. I mean, I see what's being invested right now and it's insanity, but for me it would be I don't know $1,000 a month. Let's go Right.

Sunny:

Well, according to Dr Matt Walker, who is a neuroscientist and sleep expert, this drug is sleep.

Bart:

You mean it's free?

Sunny:

It's free. Whoa Probably why we all ignore and neglect it.

Bart:

Kind of like air and water. Yeah.

Sunny:

But most people completely ignore it in pursuit of the grind. Dr Walker was on the Joe Rogan Experience and he called sleep the most powerful legal performance-enhancing drug in existence.

Bart:

I believe it.

Sunny:

So here's just some fun facts for you.

Bart:

Okay.

Sunny:

So skill learning or performance improves by 20 to 30% after sleep. So your brain replays what you've learned overnight and it refines it while you're resting. So cool, isn't that cool, like your brain is replaying things.

Bart:

Yep.

Sunny:

And enhancing them. So Dr Walker said practice doesn't make perfect. Practice with a good night of sleep is what makes perfect, and what's really cool is if you come back the next day you're 20 to 30% better in terms of your skilled performance than where you were at the end of your last practice session. That's so crazy cool I mean that's kind of like we could end the newsletter right there.

Bart:

Right yeah, get your sleep. People Go to bed, get eight hours.

Sunny:

Seriously, how hard do we work for 20 to 30% improvement in anything?

Bart:

Yeah, no doubt.

Sunny:

I mean, so here's the deal we're Play pickleball and then I'm going to go right to sleep. Yeah.

Bart:

I try, I truly try to do that.

Sunny:

Because when I try to improve 23% just through practice, dang it's hard.

Bart:

Right Amen.

Sunny:

The next one is memory is solidified during deep sleep, so if you don't sleep, your brain doesn't store what you studied, practiced or experienced.

Bart:

Interesting. That's like it's a delete button if you don't sleep. Huh, it really is.

Sunny:

You probably have to keep revisiting the same things over and over again to try to keep them locked and loaded in your brain.

Bart:

That's pretty crazy.

Sunny:

The next one is that sleep deprivation cuts stamina by 30%, and I don't think this one is as much of a shock.

Bart:

Yeah.

Sunny:

Obviously you hit a wall in your shock. Yeah, obviously you hit a wall in your workouts, or you hit a wall when you're trying to get your work done.

Bart:

But when you're exhausted it just makes up much more energy.

Sunny:

And it actually like like it says. It cuts your stamina by 30%, so you can be in the perfect shape, you can be ready to go out and just conquer the world, and if you don't sleep well, you will not perform at your highest level period.

Bart:

Right yeah that, that I had that and I've witnessed that a million times.

Sunny:

Yep. So you know, especially if you're gearing up for a big competition or you know a big business event or whatever the thing might be, get your sleep.

Bart:

Yeah, I mean, you know bike races when I used to do those a lot, and especially when I was new to bike racing. I get so nervous. I couldn't sleep the night before.

Sunny:

I was actually just thinking about that.

Bart:

It really affected me a lot in that race. You know, I was like golly, I've done all this work, done all these things and now it's day to perform and I'm so amped up that I can't get the rest that I want because I'm so worried about so many things.

Sunny:

Yeah, same, yeah Same with me in racing when I was running. It's like you know you need a good night's sleep but like that energy and anticipation and anxiousness, and then you don't sleep well and you're trying to go. Holy cow, it's hard. Another one that's probably not a surprise is that lack of sleep tinks your immune system. But maybe the statistics will. So just one night of four to five hours of sleep just one night, we're talking one night drops your natural killer cells which fight off viruses and cancer by 70%.

Bart:

No kidding.

Sunny:

That's just one night. That's huge. Here's another one. So go back to those hours again. Just one night of four to five hours of sleep drops your natural killer cells, which fight off viruses and cancer, by 70%.

Bart:

Well, don't you think everybody's getting at least that much sleep every night?

Sunny:

Well, that's just four to five hours. You need more than that.

Bart:

No, I get that, but that's that's what I'm saying. So at least we got that going for us.

Sunny:

I think most people do yeah, but that's what I'm saying, so at least we got that going for us. I think most people do yeah. Okay, men who sleep less than five hours a night have the testosterone levels of someone 10 years older, so you're actually literally aging yourself if you're not getting more than four to five hours of sleep a night.

Bart:

Crazy.

Sunny:

And then, after just 10 days of six hours of sleep per night, your brain functions like you're legally drunk.

Bart:

I believe that because they've proven that in far as that's why they say don't sleep, you know, like drowsy pull over and they have truck drivers log everything because they know these stats. And it's really true, like you're, once you're at a point of exhaustion, you're like driving like a drunk driver for sure.

Sunny:

So I thought I'd throw a little story in here. So, because I don't know. It's easy to think sleep is optional, don't you think? Yeah, of course, um, until the consequences hit hard. So in 1986, nasa launched the Challenger space shuttle with seven astronauts aboard. 73 seconds after takeoff, the shuttle exploded, killing everyone on board. Do you remember that?

Bart:

Yeah, totally. Were you watching it at school? Yes, absolutely.

Sunny:

I was too, and I think I was only like 10 or 11 at the time and I didn't fully understand what was happening.

Bart:

I just knew that my teacher started freaking out. Yeah Well, I remember watching it and all of a sudden I was like that couldn't be possible, Like that thing just blew up.

Sunny:

Yeah.

Bart:

Like for real.

Sunny:

Yeah.

Bart:

It was insane.

Sunny:

So investigators later found that one of the key factors in the disaster was sleep deprivation.

Bart:

No way.

Sunny:

Yep the engineers responsible for the final launch decision had been working on just two hours of sleep the night before Two hours. Yep, on just two hours of sleep the night before two hours, yep and their exhausted brains made critical mistakes and obviously it costs lives.

Bart:

Now, I know there's something to do with this also and we don't talk about this a lot, but traffic controllers have to be regulated on sleep too, because they have one of the highest stress jobs that there is and there is an actual criteria to how much they have to sleep.

Sunny:

Yeah. So Dr Matt Walker again explains that when you're sleep deprived, your ability to make high level decisions drops dramatically. And here's the thing that kind of shocked me you don't just think slower, you actually make riskier choices without realizing that that's what you're doing.

Bart:

So, once again, not to bring it back, or you know, make, but if you're drunk you make decisions that just aren't as accurate or just as you know, like whatever, because of that. So it's like you know it does affect your body in some way.

Sunny:

Shape or form, but I thought it was fascinating that you're making riskier choices. So if you're running a business, you're sleep deprived, you may make a decision that is not good for you and you don't even realize that that's what you're doing because it seems sound to you right. So maybe you're not out there launching you know, a space shuttle, but if a billion dollar decisions with human lives on the line were made worse because of lack of sleep, what are the chances that your daily decisions, your business, your health, your relationships are suffering because you're running on empty right?

Bart:

Yeah, and we all know, like, if I was going in for a surgery tomorrow, do you want your surgeon up all night with his kids and this, that and the other the night before, right, I mean, what would you make a choice of?

Sunny:

Yeah, you know what I mean.

Bart:

I'd be like no sleep, like how many different things. If you think about life that you would not want somebody to be sleep deprived, taking care of you or helping you. Yet we do it to ourselves.

Sunny:

I was going to say what are we willing to show up as?

Bart:

Yeah, totally, it's fascinating.

Sunny:

And here's the kicker too. That I found super fascinating is that you cannot catch up on sleep. So if you think, oh, I'll just sleep in on the weekend, it'll be fine, I can stay up, you know, late every night and then just catch up, it's not how it works. Sleep debt is cumulative, so once lost, it's lost.

Bart:

Yep Gone.

Sunny:

So, again, when we burn the candle at both ends, we're operating at a constant disadvantage Slower thinking, weaker recovery. Operating at a constant disadvantage, slower thinking, weaker recovery and poorer decision making Darn. And then there was just a few people mentioned here and I'm sure there's so many more about why the best in the world sleep more, not less, and apparently LeBron.

Sunny:

James sleeps 10 plus hours a night, and so does Roger Federer, and even Jeff Bezos swears by getting a full eight hours to make the best business decisions. So I think we're kind of getting to the point here. We can think faster, recover quicker, make better decisions and perform at higher levels. And you know, it doesn't matter how much caffeine you take or how mentally tough you think you are Right, it's just not going to cut it.

Bart:

So good and I can see so many like young parents, so many younger people, right, there's so many variables of affecting our lives, right, and so we do try to make up with it with supplements, we try to make up with the, you know, with lots of different things, like you said caffeine, all these different things. But reality is we've just got to work with each other. It sounds like, be more aptable to planning, and there's a lot of things that will help you sleep. And if you talk to a lot of people, sleep is harder than than we think. You know, like, and I think that adds up because our minds get running or we're watching devices or you know, we, we decide we're going to listen to tv a little longer and then our brains can't shut down.

Bart:

There's so many things, but it's just like working out. You've got to create and find a system, just like you would, working out and demand the workout. Right, we demand the workout, or we demand this out of ourselves, but we got to demand that sleep it sounds like at that level and protect it at that level so that we, we get it in. So you know, we, we really are going to have to start to think about. You know, what are we doing at night to get our, get our brain in this, this realm? Because there's sleep too, and then there's deep sleep and then there's all these levels of sleep too, you know.

Bart:

So you know I. I find it really cool that my daughter, with this newborn baby, our grandbaby, you know, she tracks her sleep. So since this little gal's been a baby, she's tracked every day of her sleep and I'm like, wow, now obviously we didn't do that, we didn't have that technology no, we didn't have all these things to do this kind of stuff, but it find it.

Bart:

I find it really cool because she knows exactly when she's in that deep realm, she knows how long she was in it. You know, and I know you can do this, or rings, you know you can do it through your apple watch you can do all that kind of stuff. But, but optimally, how much time do we spend on figuring out how to make this happen for ourselves better? And I know you and I have done neurobeats. You know I listen to different things when I go to sleep to try to get myself in that state and in that deeper realm.

Sunny:

You've got lavender. Yeah, I've done lavender, you know all the stuff.

Bart:

So you know we've, we've done it, but I don't know that we've really, you know, set up an exact system around sleep. So this fascinates me enough that I think it's worth experimenting with on that level.

Sunny:

Yeah, and actually that is the next section here. These are some pretty basic things, such as setting a bedtime alarm. It's funny that we set alarms in the morning it's not optional, we've got to get up but we don't at night, when it's like it's not optional to go to bed and then, like you said, ditching the screens before bed.

Sunny:

I think most of us are pretty aware that light from phones and TVs suppress melatonin, making it harder to fall asleep. So you could simply read a book or journal or do something different that's not putting that light in your eyes, and then getting morning sunlight, which is difficult this time of year because the sun is not up when we get up, but exposing your eyes to natural light within 30 minutes of waking helps regulate your circadian rhythm.

Sunny:

But then, while you were talking about all these other things that reminded me, and I had forgotten about this, but Dave Asprey the biohacker has all kinds of methods and things he does to get optimal sleep and some of it can be as easy as like if you have like a light shining in your room, it can affect your sleep Like you need it dark, and there's like certain temperatures and there's like stuff he wears, you know.

Sunny:

So, it's really good to dive into, Like if you really take this seriously, as sleep is a tool and it's super important that we get it. You know why? Wouldn't we take some extra measures to make sure that it's happening for us?

Bart:

Yeah, I agree, I think it's so awesome and you know, I think that there's more we can do. I had something on my mind, I lost it. I was, I had something on my mind, I lost it. But, like you know, even I know when we run we do this. When we, when we're sick, we'll run like this vaporizer in our room.

Sunny:

Yeah, the humidifier yeah.

Bart:

And I sleep so much better.

Sunny:

I actually do too.

Bart:

And I'm thinking like, wow, why don't I do that?

Sunny:

Yeah.

Bart:

Or you know, like you were saying of, people do, but I didn't always understand why and one day he explained it to me is because he has a fan that he has to have blow on his face.

Bart:

He has all these things he does because he travels so much, because of his career that he's figured out all these sleep hacks so that he can wake up the next morning being fully recharged and he doesn't want to inconvenience anybody else with all of his. He has a sound machine that he runs, he has a fan that runs on his face, he has a certain pillow cover that he puts on his pillow. You know he has this whole sleep routine that he goes through to make that happen and I think that's pretty, pretty cool.

Sunny:

It is cool and he does show up at a very high level. He really does.

Bart:

You know, he's always seems like he's at his top performance energetically, so it's pretty cool.

Sunny:

Yeah. So you train hard, you work hard, but if you're not recovering just as hard, you're leaving massive potential on the table. And if you want to play full out, you got to sleep full out. Yeah, that's a good one. It is the single most powerful upgrade you can make for your brain, your body and your success. Mm-hmm.

Bart:

Let's figure it out.

Sunny:

Okay, we're kind of on the life updates.

Bart:

Right on. I think life updates for me is. I've been. We got new pickleball paddles and I was able to surprise Sunny with hers. I'm being known to hers. I've been doing a lot of different things on my social media, so if you haven't checked it out, go check out Bart Allen Miller. The spelling is unique A L L A N Miller on Instagram.

Sunny:

And then I think it has an underscore at the end of it.

Bart:

Yep, very, very end, so go check that out.

Bart:

It's been some fun reels that we've been making and lots of different things we're trying for strategies on that, and Sonny and I got to go and play some pickleball together, which was really a lot of fun. And let's see, xander has been crushing it in school and right now he's getting ready for his new year of school. Actually, he's got to pick all these classes out for next year, so he's working on that right now. The weather has been cold, cold, cold, but right now it is starting to snow outside. We haven't gotten snow for a while.

Sunny:

We have a winter weather advisory, so we'll see where this goes.

Bart:

Yeah, see how that happens, and I where this goes. Yeah, see how that happens. Um, and I've been working on a new podcast and been looking at a new company to purchase and be part of, so super excited about all those fun things for me. Um, how about you Anything?

Sunny:

Um other than what you just mentioned. I did go to my jazz piano lessons on Wednesday night and you got your hair done.

Sunny:

Yeah, but first, um, it was just one of those synchronicities where Xander and I were kind of talking on the way to lessons and we briefly touched on perfectionism, like very brief, and I kind of had it tucked away in the back of my brain like I need to revisit this because I don't want it to be something that holds him back, because I obviously recognize it in my own life and I was getting ready to head in but our daughter called from Utah, so like I had a good conversation with her. By the time I got in to kind of hear the tail end of his lesson, his teacher was giving him a full on discourse on perfectionism and fear and how to lean into low stakes situation in order to gain confidence in higher stakes situation. Like it was so well articulated, so good, and I just have so much gratitude for people who are willing to say something.

Bart:

Use their voice.

Sunny:

Right yeah, and especially obviously when it affects our kid.

Bart:

Yeah, exactly, and it takes an army to raise humans and I can't, you know, like we've talked about a million times, I can have you say something to me and you're like, I'm like okay, and then all of a sudden somebody says the exact same thing and you're like, I'm like okay.

Sunny:

And then all of a sudden, somebody says the exact same thing and you're like, and vice versa, and I'm like that was so good and you're like so you know, it's great to have other people and to to recognize that and say it, so it's good. Well, and especially like yeah, mom keeps saying that, but when is somebody like that you look up to? And respect and they're the ones telling you it's, it's really cool. And then you were supposed to rope Wednesday night. You ended up eating a steak instead.

Bart:

Yeah Well, I went to go rope and I just had some problems with my. It's not problems, but like my windshield wiper broke on my pickup so and I'd already sprayed some water on there to clean the windshield and it wouldn't clean off. So then I'm like frozen water on my windshield trying to drive, trying to heat. It had to get out, got to have a whole thing, went and got a new windshield wiper. But O'Reilly's was awesome. I happened to buy these windshield wipers that had a warranty on them and they replaced them and it was awesome, so grateful.

Sunny:

And then I just had another thought. So we've got Funnel Hacking Live coming up.

Bart:

Yeah.

Sunny:

And someone's sitting at a table.

Bart:

Yeah, I announced that I'll be at a round table at Funnel Hacking Live. So if you're going to be there or you're listening to this love to see, you, love to visit with you at the round table, come say hi, yep, and so also, we'll be doing a bunch of stuff, just not updates, but we will be doing some different things on how we pack, how I pick out outfits for the event, stuff like that coming up, so that'll be fun Sounds exciting. Yeah, it's going to be great.

Sunny:

Okay.

Bart:

Is that it In a wrap? That's a wrap, okay. So, once again, just to recap, get your sleep, go to sleep and see what your performance does. Let us know any hacks that you have on your sleep or ways that you figured out, or even your routines. We would love to hear them. Yeah, and if you'd like to be featured on this podcast, just like Russell and Cole at Brunch and Word, unbeknownst to us and them?

Sunny:

Last week go check it out.

Bart:

Yeah, if you haven't listened to it last week, let us know that too. So, with that, this segment brought to you by I Do Epic.

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Bart Miller

Host
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Sunny Miller

Host